Ok this is a very delicate subject indeed!
In the last twenty or so years there has been a rise in piano outlets that started out less than honourable. Some of these shops have gone on to become highly regarded dealers, others just remain, well the only way to describe them is conmen. They are like the second hand car salesmen that were the butt of many jokes in the 80s, like Harry Wormword in the 90s adaptation of Matilda (played by Danny DeVito).
When I was 16 years old with my then very basic understanding of the piano I worked for one such dealer "Chertsey Pianos" now long gone. Here I unwittingly learnt a bit about the bad side of the piano trade. The owner would take free and cheap pianos, put them in his shop, dust them and get them tuned by some well lets say interesting tuners, there was only one I trusted, then the owner would advertise them for sale. I saw some intersting repairs and even the shop owner would undertake repairs when he knew nothing about pianos. But the showroom always looked stunning. It was small but the pianos always looked good in there, and he had the gift to sell ice to an eskimo. If a buyer was unhappy he would buy the piano back for less than he paid sighting tuning, delivery and collection as the reason.
Later many of these dealers started to turn up on eBay. Many times I turned up to pianos that had clearly been flood damaged, were well past their best. These were often cheap inferior British uprights from the early 1900s or older that the dealer obtained for free so would polish them with domestic furniture polish, advertise them as "restored" and often not even tune them. Then deliver them and vanish on the unsuspecting buyer.
Each time the customer would tell me that they had bought online from a business and how the delivery was included they were going to arrange tuning but in never happened and the seller had now gone, as an American car enthusiast this is something we see a lot with imported muscle cars.
But now in 2024, these guys are getting crafty! They use AI to enhance pictures, yes many of us do this, my case I sell from my workshop which is in my garage and am currently working on to make look more presentable, but workshops get busy and often dirty. But these guys are selling from storage units, shipping containers, old buildings and they are not full of pianos for restoration or in storage but are overloaded with pianos in awful condition for sale. They'll say that the advertised piano is restored and charm you into buying the piano promising you everyhthing just to get you to buy the piano, they remind me of Beetlejoice when he first meets the couple. Having promised you the sun and the moon to clinch a sale they'll then deliver the piano and arrange a tuner then when they tune the piano is when you will find the pianos faults the seller will vanish on you leaving you potentially thousands out of pocket with a piano needing more money spending on it.
I know this as I have tuned for such dealers who tell when booking the tuning the piano is not restored so is not perfect etc, but the owner understood it had been restored, when I find an issue with the piano I also get no response and now many of these dealers won't use me to tune for them, some will not let me near their premises, even answer my query on adverts when I am looking for pianos to restore for myself or am sourcing for a customer. In the past I have had them use my letter heading to write reports saying that I recommend the piano!
So how do we filter out the good dealers from the bad ones?
Well this is the tricky part. But thankfully the internet can help us here a bit. But it is always best if possible to ask around, if learning ask your piano teacher, ask piano players you may know, if you have kids ask your school music teacher or the church organist. Recommendations is always a positive starting point, do not go on just recommendation, another good source is to ask a local piano tuner to view the piano with you, you will need a tuner so ask one if they are happy to look at pianos with you, they'll charge but its worth it.
In this capacity I have gone with customers to Steinway, Yamaha, Bluthner all which I have a strong working relationship with and many other reputable dealers. But one dealership I went to look at a Yamaha, the showroom as beautiful with an impressive range of both new and restored pianos from a variety of makers. We were looking at the restored Yamaha pianos, not a single so claimed restored instrument was in a suitable condition to be sold. The salesman refused to tell where they had the piano restored or if they imported it as restored.
I have also gone to warehouses where the dealer had several pianos claiming them to be unrestored secondhand pianos they had picked up and they were all great value for the money just needing a good clean and service. I have gone to similar set ups as mine to home garages used as workshops, even sheds put together and seen some amazing pianos, as well as junk in these setups.
Below I talk about what to look out for as both green and red flags as signs if the dealer you are looking to buy from is decent. These are only guidelines and are not a one size fits all statement but should hopefully help guide you a bit.
Most repuatble dealers will not only welcome the visit from another tuner but in the digital age will also have a website. Many not so reputable dealers now also have very flash websites. Today websites are so easy and cheap to make and there are rogue dealers with strong IT training who rely upon this online medium to sell pianos.
Often a listing on eBay or Gumtree will mention the company name, possibly giving the website address, some selling sites do not permit outside website links, but you can always google the company name.
Some reputable tuners who sell may not have a website.
On these websites there should be a page giving the history of the company or the owners training and or experience and history within the trade, most of us are proud of our training and experiences and we will proudly inform of this to give an understanding of our training and or heritage within the industry. Heres some things you should look for some information about their training and or history. Key places of training should include places like London College of Furniture which later became The London City Polytechnic, then The London Guildhall University. Also look out for Newark College as this is the current best college for training in England.
Not every restorer goes to college so also look for training and experience with reputable piano companies such as Steinway and Bluthner, also manufacturers such as Welmar or Kemble, If an older person then John Broadwood. Another good sign is if they come from a family of piano restorers especially if they do not have college or large company training. Some will be able to name long established well known local piano shops with workshops where they trained, these businesses would often have been family run, maybe over a century old but sadly a lot are now closed due to no one being there to take over the business.
Failure to mention any of this is a potential red flag as it begs the question have they had proper training. So the question here is do they use trusted restorers and technicians? Do not be afraid to ask who they use and then google them.
Another potential red flag in this section is how they talk about their business they often tell how they supply overseas, the movie or theatre business also interior designers for dressing show homes, shop dispays etc. why is this a red flag? this means that there are very few serious musicians to back up their legacy and they have mainly supplied pianos to be used as props so they did not need to be in great playing condition, but by saying they supplied the West End and or the movie business all sounds very glamorous and traps you to thinking they supplied high quality pianos and that you could be buying a piano that featured in a movie or the West End and was used by stars.
As a I said these are just guides so obviously some reputable dealers will have supplied the theatres and movie industry with decent pianos to be used as pianos and not just props, and show homes. It is rare but yet not unknown that they will use this as a reason to promote their business, but will be just a passing comment not a huge lever to sell.
My last red flag on the websites is can you get any indication of when the business started and when the owner got into the piano trade? From the text you will either get a rough date or decade when they started to train or set up their business. I have noticed many (not all) rogues will give the impression they have been around for decades when the business is only a few years old, they cannot mention training, past experience yet will give the impression they have been around some time supplying the movie or theatre business or supplying the trade. When asked in person it will still be vert vaugue. When you try to find evidence of hiring even selling to the movie or theatre industry nothing can be found to back any of this.
Some businesses the owners are not tuners or technician, This is niether a red or green flag. But ask who they use to restore and maintain the pianos, google them, to find out if they do work for the dealer. I have had shops claim to use me when they do not, I have had the phone call asking if I work for this company only to tell them I do not. This damaged my reputation for a while as people understood and were telling others in the trade that I had restored pianos which had not been restored or were very badly repaired.
Now you may have established that you are happy with the dealer when visiting do not be afraid to ask to see the workshop especially ask if they do not mention it but talk about restoration work, or if its mentioned on the website. Seeing where the work takes place and seeing projects which they are working on is always a good sign. If they refuse unless a company like Steinway then its another potential red flag. If they do not have their own workshop again make a note of who they use and check on this. Most restorers are more than happy and proud to show you their facilities.
Now you are at the showroom/workshop etc make a mental note of the condition of pianos on display. Do not be put off by a small range of pianos. The pianos for sale should be clean and tidy ready for selling. The odd ropey looking piano in the room is ok but not lots, ideally there will be no indication its for sale at this stage, or it will be very cheap. Most reputable dealers that do not restore but by in pre restored will either dump these or sell them in the trade to restorers, some might still have the "bargain basement" where they sell the cheap traded in pianos.
A note on workshops some rogue dealers permit their technician to "train" technicians at their store facility. A workshop will have benches, bad saws, pillar drills, bench polishes, drawers and cubboards with parts and sheets of materials, tools hanging up, lacqures, vanishes etc. If you go into a room see lots of people working look out for signs its an actual workshop not a pretend training centre where the dealer gets poor quality work done for free mending the broken notes on the pianos. True restorers may have one or two apprentices.
If in a storage facility of any kind, make a note of the presentation.
A reputable dealer with pride the pianos for sale well be accessible, there maybe some grands wrapped on their sides under covers and blankets but all grand pianos on their legs and for sale will be accessible. Uprights may be neatly placed in a line back to front in a line waiting to be restored or put up for sale, but orderly and under blankets etc. the room/s should be fairly orderly and reasonably clean, the pianos are there to be worked on and later sold, it should be clear that they are seen as an asset, so should be looking as though they are being cared for even if the room is a bit busy and they are clearly in storage.
the pianos that are for sale should be presentable, not dusty, maybe a blanket placed over to protect from dust and spiders etc. But they should be easily accessible.
Again some store rooms can be busy and a bit messy, but there is a limit.
When you chose a piano, ask to see inside it. It should all be clean and clearly worked on. Ask whats been done to it and get them to show you, yes even young pianos like Yamaha.
Ask about warranty. A warranty is not a legal requirement. I personally do not offer a formal warranty but back up my work and my pianos, I have done repairs on parts I did not repair at the time of sale as these parts were fine. But whilst playing the piano after tuning it well over a year later I noticed the fault had developed, out of pride for selling the piano and being honourable wanting to look after the customer and keep a happy customer I fixed these at my expense because I am proud of my work and the pianos I sell so I want to keep my customers happy and feel its my duty to ensure they get above and beyond the best treatment I can offer, after all looking after my customers is my best advert as it is them who will bring me new customers via recommendations, so its in my best interest to provide after care.
Ask about the after tuning this should be free, but I know that Steinway charge delivery, sell a stool and charge for the first tuning.
At this stage you want to hear all positives, what work was carried out, you want a warranty if not then a passionate expression of the pride they take in their after care.
If in doubt get everything in writing. I am soon to start a putting together a document so that in a world full of rogues and scammer I can offer my customers everything in writing to offer further peace of mind.
These are all signs of a good dealer.
What about piano movers that sell? I also work for my movers tuning and looking after the pianos they sell. Here you will go to a storage facility and there will be some pianos for sale. Accept that these pianos are not restored, if they make out they ahve been then walk away. Again ask about tuning.
Recap
A good dealer will have history of training and experience
A good dealer will welcome piano tuners
A good dealer the shop or workshop will be orderly even if busy
A good dealer will offer good after sales
Reviews
I always find reviews questionable, especially on eBay. My experience has been to go to tune a bad piano from a rogue dealer. The buyer wrote the review on the day of recieving the piano out of excitement. When the piano went wrong they got no response from the dealer, they then get me out only to tell them they need to spend money.
Several times in these situations I have been told "to think I left a great review when they delivered".
All my reviews on my website were given some time later when I asked if they were prepared to write something, or could I use their comments to me on the website and checked they were happy, all these were put on the new site some several years after initially selling or working for these customers.
At this stage I have one review on eBay, this is becuase where possible I insist they come and try the piano if happy we then settle away from ebay. People leaving reviews on eBay buy direct on eBay so have no idea what they are buying hence they will review on delivery or in the excited honeymoon period before the tuning or needing after sale, which is why I do not trust when I see hundreds of eBay reviews, added to this you can often delete the bad reviews on these selling sites.
To me after over 30 years in the trade, having friends in the trade seeing how reviews etc seemingly work, an ebay seller with hundreds of posivte reviews is worrying. Mainly as those with so many have more often than not turned out to be rogues, hence the red flag.
But to keep the balance going some eBay shops with hundreds of positive reviews only sell imported restored Japanese pianos which are all high quality and the reviews are justified in these instances.
My advice take a seller with hundreds of positive reviews with a pinch of salt, often these were not written after they had received the entire sale, only after delivery.
To End With
Hopefully this has helped a bit in what to look for in a decent, reputable piano dealer and which potential red flags to watch out for.
Remember its not a one size fits all situation. But hopefully having read this, if you get to a dealer and feel somethings not right from the infomation I have given you, you hopefully will have an idea how to confirm if your feeling is right or not and how to confirm if its time to walk away or not.
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